– Whose Justice? Kimin Adalet?

Click here for English…

“-Sultan Süleyman’ın Adalet ”

Kanûnî Sultan Süleyman’ın Adaleti budır…

Adaleti fikirlerimizi 500 yıl Sultan Süleyman’dan sonra değiştirdiler. Çok sevdiği şov Muhteşem Yüzyıl 600 Mısır’daki aileleri Mısır’ya dömeyi izin verdiğini ve kötü Pashahının başı kestirdi gösterdi. Bizim göremizi böyle bir adalet çok sert ama şu Sultan kütüphaneleri hamamlar ve çok altyapı halklar için yaptıldı. Dr. Maulana Karenga, şimdiki düşüncüler gibi adalet insanlık gibi derler yani hem aynı saygı her kez için hem aynı şeref için. Diğerleri, John Rawls gibi, adaleti kontrolu için derler, her kez herhangi yerleri koyarlar. Tüm üçüncü bir şey derler ki her kes ileri geçmesi lazım. O yüzdan adalet için tüm insanları hem kütüphane hem Temel Gelir şart.

(Türkcemi düzetleri için çok teşekkür edericektim… Corrections to my Turkish gratefully accepted…)

“-Sultan Suleiman’s Justice…”

This was Suleiman the Magnificent’s Justice…

Our notions of what justice is have changed over the five hundred years since Sultan Suleiman dispensed judgments and consequences. The popular series Magnificent Century depicts him freeing 600 Egyptian families to return to Egypt and executing the cruel official who had enslaved them. His justice may have seemed harsh to modern eyes, yet this Sultan also built schools with libraries, public baths, hostels and hospitals, providing a high level of public infrastructure to his subjects. Modern thinkers, such as Dr. Maulana Karenga, have defined justice in part as being fundamentally defined by treatment of each human being with equal respect and dignity. Others, like John Rawls, have proposed tests of justice in which societal roles could be interchangeable. All three agree in the essential: that each human being must be given the opportunity to grow. Each agrees that justice requires certain access and resources for all people, including: Free access to learning, and the time to use it. #PublicDomainInfrastructure (1.Free and full access Public Libraries
2.Pro-Bono Legal and Free Consumer Education
3.Universal Health Care on a Single Payer System
4. Good Public Transportation) can help accomplish that.

Read, Write, Dream, Walk !


March 6th, 12018 HE

My 45 Year Mission: 4FreedomsMovementPlan

23 thoughts on “– Whose Justice? Kimin Adalet?

  1. Your mention, that each of the thinkers you referenced considered access to education and time to use it as important, made me wonder what you think about the future where most things might be done by AI.

    Do you think the lower importance (in terms of the functioning of the system) of humans being educated might lead us down a bad road? One where we might not be given the opportunity to develop ourselves, or do you think we can always develop ourselves even if we aren’t given the right tools for it, or is your thinking not in line with either?

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Would you mean, sorry, just to clarify, the lower importance of humans being educated for rote mechanical jobs that can be automated, leading us down a bad road? Hmmm.
      Well, I personally believe that it is good to know even things that you may not yourself end up having to do, like changing your oil, or understanding how your transmission works, if you own and drive a car (which was the reason that I bought a base model manual, back in 1997, when I still drove to work). I believe that it is also important to understand the workings of rote systems that we use daily, even if we do not need to do the work ourselves, because an understanding of how things work allows more complex work to be build on top of those systems.
      But, as you point out, the knowledge may one day not be actually needed, in practicality. Should this come to pass, I still believe that a broad education for both creative and practical contribution is an absolute necessity for all human beings.
      Creative though, ideas, new things, and imagination is what makes us human. An education, a real education, well-rounded and founded on reflection, is absolutely needed to bring out the full potential in every human being. It is our higher thinking capacity, that which begins around adolescence and continues to mature, so a nurse tells me, in our frontal cortex even into our early thirties, that distinguishes us from the other animals, and gives us unique capacities to dream, to create, to plan, and to build.
      That is the importance of education.
      Not a mere job.
      And yes, tools are always needed, but tools that enable all of us to build new tools, if necessary. One never has the right tools at hand all the time, but the alphabet or a syllabary, numbers, mathematics, then calculus, all of these are tools that keep being developed and improved, and with those tools we build an improve more tools, to have the ‘right tool for the right job’ as needed.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I was thinking slightly darker thoughts. To me, it seems very possible that we’ll have less and less of a say in how the system works, and that the elites or the AI will start to find education a waste. Could have been more clear than saying “might not be given the opportunity to develop ourselves.”
        With “do you think we can always develop ourselves even if we aren’t given the right tools for it” I meant if we aren’t given the tools to educate ourselves (both conceptual tools like math beyond arithmetic and more concrete tools like tech or software) will we under those circumstances still be able to develop ourselves, by for example reinventing things or focusing on improving what we do still do in our future daily life?

        Liked by 1 person

        1. We will only have less of a say if we give in to that darkness, now. Educating all of us has never been the intention of any elites, but it is in all of our best interests, and we must work to keep educating ourselves, even if it requires copying out books by hand, as they did in the Soviet Union. When one is not given the tools, one must make them, even as slaves did, and as dissidents and people in such situations have done around the world, in many times and places. If we share and extend knowledge further and further, then we will not need to reinvent anything, as long as we know how to cooperate.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. I’m actually not sure how much of a psychological need education is. If the system we end up in is sorta ok, whether or not it’d be important for people to educate themselves to me depends om how much of a need it is to our psychological wellbeing.

            If the system doesn’t take everything into account, like the one where elites rule over us with little regard, or with a incomplete understanding of life. In those cases I think it’d be all the more necessary to educate ourselves. To make sure we can get fulfil the needs they don’t provide.

            Could perhaps also be that we really need a sense of control and losing control of the social system would be horrible, regardless of it leading to other bad outcomes. Though many people already don’t feel have much of an impact on government nowadays.

            Liked by 1 person

            1. No worries: it helps me to understand how my writing needs to be tightened up: I define infrastructure needs, like education of various types, not by subjective or psychological standards, but by the standard of the good to society. Thus, education in a variety of ways and types is absolutely necessary for us to have a ‘good society’ and for all of us to be able to live ‘the good life,’ and even merely for us to coexist. Peacefully, and civilly, that is.

              Liked by 1 person

            2. I’d think for us to have a say in society, we do have to be somewhat educated. Otherwise we’ll fall for misinformation, or will be unable to understand too many necessary solutions. The more we have a say the more educated we need to be.

              To just coexist, I’m not sure. To me there seem to be plenty of fairly uneducated groups now and throughout history who coexist(ed) just fine. Some religious communities, certain working-class neighbourhoods, etc. Educated people do tend to have better outcomes on a wide range of measures, so of course it’s still good to get educated, but I don’t see it as absolutely necessary to peacefully and civilly coexist.

              Liked by 1 person

            3. I agree entirely: voice requires education, and civilization, peace, and progress, in the long run, do require voice, in order to be sustainable. And for every human being to fully expand and reach fullest creative and contributing potential, a variety of types of education are needed, for each person.

              Liked by 1 person

            4. That’s probably true. To have good government you likely need a say, otherwise your needs might not be taken into account. I heard that currently US policy is actually fairly representative of what the people who vote think about policy. It’s just that the needs of those who don’t are being ignored.

              I don’t really think AI would take the needs of people without a say (at least in the design process) into account (much) more. Its designers would have to have almost super human abilities, to take into account all the opinions and needs that are out there.

              Sorry for going on about AI perhaps too much. A while back I found a really nice YouTube channel dedicated to AI safety and AI alignment, and ever since I find it very interesting.

              Liked by 1 person

            5. No worries: AI is going to be extremely important, very soon, and the algorithms are hyper important, as you point out. The biases and blind spots of algorithm designers of very important to watch, in the here and now, for the long term, and I am glad that there are people paying attention to the issue, as it needs to be. I personally see a gap in terms of long term thinking that not many people are addressing, so I try to work on that, as it is the real bee in my bonnet, along with voice for those who do not or cannot vote, as you point out: short term policy changes may appear to follow public opinion, to a certain extent, depending on the administration in office, but if no one is looking at how to plan for the next 60-100 years or longer, there will be problems down the line, as we are seeing now, and that is purely a matter of education: for empathy, for critical thinking, for the long-term, and for stability of our society and civilization. We’ve lost too much to too many revolutions, collapses and Dark Ages to neglect our learning from and preparing for the consequences of what we’ve done in the recent and longer ago past. We need to start learning those lessons right now, because the consequences are already here, and every person on earth is affected, and thus deserves some say.

              Liked by 2 people

            6. I agree. Hopefully more people than just the shareholders of big tech companies get a say. I’d even say that having everyone who votes as part of the decision process would be under inclusive, especially since AI will have a big impact on countries without big tech companies too. Good on you for working on giving people voice who don’t or can’t.

              I’m a bit pessimistic we’ll achieve the social change needed before it might be too late (though general AI is probably still quite long away). Maybe we can create an AI which will let us change it, but giving everyone a proper say is going to be really hard.

              I also think giving everyone actually a say might be harder once we have AI, since it’ll likely be very persuasive. Maybe we could teach it to amplify unheard voices, but how do we determine what unheard voices need to be amplified? There’s a lot of conspiracy thinking out there and the internet amplifying those unheard voices doesn’t seem to have done much good, unfortunately. A very charitable AI might do the same, but one that’s more critical might squash too many people’s opinions both good and bad. So even an AI that’ll let us change it still caries with it a worldview. One we don’t know if it is a view we want long term.

              Sometimes it also seems our progress is a bit lopsided. We seem to have discovered way more about the material world than we did about ourselves (understandably, we are harder to study, both it seems because of moral issues and us being more complex). It does seem a bit dangerous to have made a lot less progress on the social/moral front than the material front. It looks like we almost maxed out the physics “tech tree” twice now before we got a “tech tree” expanding discovery. On the social science front maybe we’ve almost maxed out self-interested rational econ, but it seems not much else.

              Liked by 1 person

            7. “…more people than just the shareholders of big tech companies get a say…”

              We get a say if we continue to insist on getting a say.
              And yes, of course it is complex: all great problems in the world are, and yes, we’ve gotten way ahead of our adolescent selves with toys bigger, more powerful, and more complex than we yet understand fully, which makes it even more imperative that every one of us give every bit we have to the task of solving the underlying social problems, and moving the human race from adolescence to adulthood, before it is too late. Or even if it is already too late. The task remains crucial, and every voice and every perspective counts.

              “Because the alternative is too terrible to consider. ”

              (sorry, yes, the Minbari have a quote for all…)
              -Shira for Satai Delenn

              Liked by 1 person

            8. I actually started in STEM but quit because of mental health reasons before I finished my degree. Perhaps with the lop-sidedness of our development a blessing in disguise (at least for the world).

              Liked by 1 person

            9. Ah. I always wanted to study languages and history, but because there were only scholarships available in engineering, that’s where I went: for me, the distraction of pulling all-night study sessions actually helped me with my trauma issues, although I fell apart immediately after graduation. Thankfully, by that point I had a job with decent mental health coverage. Unfortunately, the motivation of being on the street without a degree does not serve most people well, because I was lucky to have been able to finish my degree. But then I find that I’ve always been accused of avoiding my issues by working too much. Perhaps a blessing in disguise of our emphasis on productivity.

              Liked by 1 person

            10. I don’t think I’m better off for not finishing my degree because of mental health, but perhaps in the long run I’ll make a more positive impact this way then if I’d have been successful in becoming a theoretical physicist. Maybe not, I was always fairly altruistic and would have probably still found the effective altruism community and I’d probably have more ability to donate. Oh well, it’s not like we can change the past.

              Liked by 1 person

Please Share your Thoughts

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s